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I need some help with the forms from Session 1

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I need some help with the forms from Session 1

for 11 år siden 0 +0 / -0 218

Hi Steven S,

Sorry no one has gotten back to you sooner about the forms question you had.

The first form you were asking about "Anxious thought form" is for you to put together a list of feelings/thoughts/physiological reactions at a time when you feel heightened stress/anxious. You should be able to access a sample which shows two examples of how to fill out the form. On your home page, near the middle of the page there will be a box with all your unlocked tools (SESSION TOOLS), there you will see the anxious thought form. Beside it, click on sample. As for the second form "panic attack form" you will complete some basic information and then fill out what may have been associated with the panic attack. Simply circle/check off which symptoms accompany an attack. Once again, there is a sample page in one of the boxes on your home page which will help. It will open once you have completed session 1.

Both these tools are to help you evaluate your anxious thoughts/panic attacks in order to address them and make plans to mitigate them down the road. They are to be filled out in close as duration to an attack/thought as possible so try to do so quickly as possible. Hope this helps.

for 11 år siden 0 +0 / -0 6252

Okay

for 11 år siden 0 +0 / -0 29

As far as the forms go, they are completely useless to me for a number of reasons. first off, I have not gotten the "ah-ha" moment for ME to realize their benefit. That is imperative, otherwise they are completely useless to me. Secondly, if I fill out the forms, for me to catalog them and go back over months of them is not something I am likely to do...especially to try to find a specific one to compare to. I am not that organized and never have been. I wrote in journals when I was young (30 years ago). Except for looking at them a couple of times in the past 30 years, they are of no value except for me to see that my feelings are the same as they were then when I was dating people and the feelings that I had then. They are all the same and would basically be the same now if I were to write them. My abilities to deal with relationships hasn't changed...they are controlled by my insecurities. I know now where all of that comes from...my childhood abuse. What is that supposed to tell me?

for 11 år siden 0 +0 / -0 29

White, in paint is the absence of color. While white light on the other hand is the combination of all colors. There is a big difference. I know this from Art classes and Television Production classes. One deals in light (television production) and one deals with pigment (art classes) using paints. For your edification.

for 11 år siden 0 +0 / -0 6252

Steven

Intelligent people have more chance of having a panic attack just because of the way they see and store things. They use more thoughts to make a decision so the chances of bringing up negative ones is greater, unless you are conditioned not to or you don't have any to start with. I not only have lots of negative choices in memory but I was also conditioned to use them. The negative thoughts will always be there , they are just buried and the conditioning is gone. CBT did this for me.

You know the saying too smart for your own good. You don't want to do the forms because you can figure out what they want before it happens. But this isn't what they want. They don't want to know if you are going to have an attack, that is a given. They want to know how you handled it after it happened. How you felt, what you did and how it compared to last time. You can visualize the answers but it is not the same as if it actually happened. Visualization leaves you with a negative thought where as writing it leaves you with a chance to leave a positive thought at the end. visualization is okay if you can visualize a change for the good but since it didn't happen it is next to worthless. Where as writing what did gives you a chance for comparison and a place to end positive. If you can 100% do this in your head and keep a log of months then you don't need the forms. Very few can do this. I would start adding negatives and have nothing to cross reference them too. Or I would add positives that were not really there.

I didn't know about this site when I did CBT. I kept a journal, same Idea though.

Why do you think you can never get better? Think carefully because all the reasons are going to be core beliefs so very believable where I say and can say because your core beliefs have no control of me that anyone can get better with understanding and the right help. It has been proven over and over.

White is a collection of all the colours passing white through a prism changes its focal length and separates the colours. Black is the absence of colour, there are no rainbows at night. Rainbows would be white if light passing through water droplets did not change whites focal length.

I don't know what to say about the forms other than you should try to do them at least once a day even if it is a collection.

Davit

for 11 år siden 0 +0 / -0 29

Davit,

I apologize for that coming across accusatory as that was not my intention. I can tell you that yesterday I have a Crohn's episode and with me going down on my meds, what I was used to taking when I had Crohn's episodes has thrown my for a loop, so to speak. My brain is rather fuzzy today.

It just hit a nerve...like people saying that you can't love someone else if you don't love yourself. I can say categorically that isn't true, at least in my case...OR, I in fact do love myself and don't realize it.

I have a number of things that are good about me, so I guess you would say that, at least in some areas, I DO like myself. I am compassionate, giving, loving, caring, honest, sincere and trustworthy. I imagine that there are more, but sometimes it takes another person to point them out to you because they are innate to you, so you don't think about them.

You weren't risking getting me mad. You were potentially risking making me sad and leaving because I would think that I can never get "better" based on your statement.

I will also say that my mind is in a bit of flux right now as I am getting off of my meds. I am feeling more things which is good, but at the same time, some of those things like depression are no so pleasant. This is a necessary step though as it has been a very long time since my meds were adjusted or even looked at. They did keep me in a "dead place" which wasn't good. I didn't feel much of anything.

You know, through all of this, I still don't get these forms. On one hand, I understand what they are supposed to do, but on the other hand, I am opposed to them as "I can think faster than them". What I mean by that is that, my mind knows exactly what is going on all of the time and with my decades of experience of therapy, I can second, third, and forth guess everything. When I was young and having a conversation with someone, I was thinking ahead of the conversation and thinking of answers or responses to a multitude of possibilities of what they might say...and then I would think of answers or responses to all of those and so on, and so on. I had virtually the whole conversation thought out in every possibility and responses for all of that. I found that to be too tiring and through time, I stopped doing that. At the same time though, when it pertains to these forms, It seems like an unbelievable waste of time and paper and ink and trees to be writing all of this stuff down...at least for me. I need that "ah-ha", moment before I will see the benefit. I went on to Session 2 and read that. I printed out the Advanced Negative Thought Form and looked at it. I just either have a HUGE mental block to these forms or I just don't get it AT ALL. Did you go through that? It that something that you have heard others say? Is that common? I don't mean for this to be taken the wrong way, but I feel like I am "too smart for those forms". My basic nature will defeat any good they might do until I see a reason for them... (A REASON THAT MAKES SENSE TO ME). Do you understand what I mean? I feel like these forms are designed for pre-schoolers and I am in college. They just don't compute...they don't resonate. I don't know any other way to say it. I want to go through this and improve myself, but if you give me a bucket of white paint and tell me to paint a rainbow, I can't do it. A rainbow has 7 colors in it...and none of them are white...and yes, I know there are way more than 7,but that is what the human eye sees.

I hope this gives you more information about me. I do want to apologize again for what was accusatory in my previous post.

Steven

for 11 år siden 0 +0 / -0 6252

Steven

Okay do you see now why your psychiatrist wants you just to learn coping skills and not why. Too much information is only part of it. Your core beliefs are already fighting you. It happens to all of us.

Men are from Mars and women are from Venus. Well I'm from pluto. I am different from most of the people I know. But I still like me. I didn't always. I had core beliefs that said I was ugly. I had core beliefs that said I was stupid. And I had core beliefs that said I could never be loved. All of them wrong.

There are things I'm still working on. There are things I may never change and there are some pretty powerful ones I don't like. I'm about 80% satisfied and I'm told that is pretty good for some one with a panic disorder.

I like my determination, I like my compassion, I like the way I live even though it is different. I like my skills.

This is why you have to challenge them.

I'm going to take a chance of you getting mad and leaving because I think you really do want to get better.

I see things you do like about yourself but there is so much negative that you are blinded. Take each one of these things you like and reinforce them with things that prove it. Core beliefs deal with the overall, they throw an umbrella over everything so it is hard to deal with single things. Negative breeds negative, positive breeds positive.

My brother has an anger disorder and a core belief that he is perfect so he can never deal with it. He will never believe it even though it crops up at least once a day. Core beliefs blind you.

I'm physically disabled. Disabilities go hand in hand with anxiety, panic and depression. Pain makes it worse. The hardest thing I had to deal with was people holding doors for me.

You will be amazed at how much different the world looks if you take the things you like and reinforce them. Beware of the negative in memory that tries to stop you from doing this. If this was a live group we would insist you tell us the things you like about yourself and we would shoot you down every time your memory brought up a negative.

CBT works but you have to work it.

This is only 10 posts, there are people still reinforcing liking themselves after hundreds but they are getting there and are happy with their success. There are people who know it is a battle but are fighting it anyway because the work sheets show their gains and where they need work. Tell me in a month that you are not making progress because I won't believe it. Just the fact you are still here says a lot. Tell your core beliefs where to go and prove them wrong, they are you know.

I have a saying. "CBT is the hardest simple thing you will ever do". A friend from here quotes that every time she starts to slip. I should Email her and see how she is. She is an amazing success storey.

The problem with success is that people leave so you can never count how many there are. There are only a few I get to check on. I wish they would all come back and scream I won.

Steven, if you were a normal healthy person you would not be here, none of us would. Accept today as a set back and right it down but also right down "I am trying" Always end on a positive note.

You know I didn't kill your chances nor did the statement, it is just words. Your interpretation based on your core beliefs is trying to kill your ability. Don't let it. You can do this.

Again start with one thing you like about you and reinforce it. I'm talking about what you like, not what others like, they are not the ones that have to do this exercise.

There is a thing called association where a negative thought will transfer to another thought just because it is associated even remotely. But the same happens with positive thoughts.

Do you know what a bell curve is?

Davit

for 11 år siden 0 +0 / -0 29

Hi Davit,

I got the triangle just fine. Thank you.

You said something in your last reply that I have heard many times before and I have never figured out how to deal with it. It is, "You can not deal with core beliefs if you do not like who you are. If there is anything to forgive yourself for do it now. You can not deal with core beliefs or any part of the program from the outside looking in. It is too easy to walk away. you must do it from the inside and never forget that every move you make is you and about you."

Although I do like some things about me, I have never had a good opinion of myself because I have never been able to deal with things like "healthy" people do. I am timid and shy when it comes to dealing with others, especially in an intimate relationship. I have never been able to forgive myself, as you put it, for the "bad" parts that are within me.

By that last statement, you just killed my ability to help myself through this program. Those feelings run very deep and are lifelong. I have never been like others that I have observed. Confident, happy, able to deal with things like a "normal well-adjusted person" can do.

I have stayed in the shadows...always wanting what they had...being able to do what the do...but in my 53 years, I have been unable to do that.

Now I don't know what to say...

for 11 år siden 0 +0 / -0 6252

Good morning Steven

My mother miscarried a lot I have only one brother who doesn't like me. I spent the first six weeks of my life in an incubator and never did build real good lung capacity. So my attachment was to a few nurses, then since my mother wanted a girl instead my attachment was to my grandmother. I was a happy baby that never cried. Too timid? Scared of losing my attachment? Probably. In those formative years after I spent too much time alone. I'm good at being alone although not alone, I do have a cat. But I have had relationships with three fine ladies so I can do both. They added to who I am in a way that I wanted because I did not want to lose the compassion that makes up who I am. Once in a while I will slip into some thing else but always go back. Usually it is a situation that I don't deal well with.

So you see, you can reinforce core beliefs or you can change them depending on the three foundations of dealing with them. They are perception attitude and belief. Personality dictates how well and how you do this.

Changing core beliefs does not change who you are except in the sense of how you see things. Anger when it happens usually is aimed at yourself in the form of anger at all the time you have lost. If there is anger at others for the part they played you must stop it right there. You can't change the past. We are dealing with you. All you can use the past for is so you don't make the same mistakes.

You can not deal with core beliefs if you do not like who you are. If there is anything to forgive yourself for do it now.

You can not deal with core beliefs or any part of the program from the outside looking in. It is too easy to walk away. you must do it from the inside and never forget that every move you make is you and about you.

I'm not a shrink, I have one thing few of them have, I have experience, I've been to war so to speak and have the wounds to show for it. I also won, I can deal with it.

This is far too much information to be starting the program with, set it aside, we can come back to it. Do the program, it is based on CBT and CBT works.

Let me know if you didn't get the triangle.

Davit

for 11 år siden 0 +0 / -0 29

Hi Davit,

I understand what you are saying about core beliefs and early childhood. When I was born, my mom almost died and had to stay in the hospital for 6 weeks. During that time, I was taken care of (lived with) my grandparents since my dad had to work. Then with the sex abuse happening at age 5 and the verbal and physical abuse from the other kids through age 7 and up to high school, would suggest that I have allot of negative core beliefs. That is what I "saw" (good visualization skills) when I was reading the stuff on Attachment Theory and Thought Triangle.

There is a part of me that worries about making the changes because then I won't be the person I am. I worry about loosing my ability to be compassionate and similar "good things" if I become "balanced/healed" and change my core beliefs. I am sure that is not an uncommon thought, but I know in the past, thinking of changing myself through therapy and other means, I worried about losing some of my good traits. That has been an ongoing fight when I was presented with things like this that would change me at a deep level. I know it defies logic, not wanting to help myself past all of the negative stuff so that I will retain the compassion and empathy I have for others. There is allot of fear related to that.

Do you have a bigger image of the image that you made your avatar? I have tried to read it and can't. Could you send me a bigger version of it to my email? It is: solotogreat@gmail.com

Thank you,

Steven

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I need some help with the forms from Session 1