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Timbo637

2024-10-31 6:49 AM

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for 10 år siden 0 6252 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
When I was 38 I started getting chest pains, and I was tired a lot. Turns out I had the beginning of Arthritis in my sternum where it joins the ribs. It has since gone away as did the pains in my face. It is hard to detect in the beginning and can attack anywhere two bones join, it doesn't have to be where there is cartilage.

I'm not saying this is what you have but it is a possibility. 

Davit
for 10 år siden 0 32 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Well, the doctor told me to get a much exercise as I can daily to elevate my heart rate and to eat a clean , healthy diet and referred me to  a dietician.

Didn't make me feel any better afterwards…the chest squeezing never goes away.

The ability and cymbalta i was instructed to come off of as my panic was getting to the point i couldnt leave the house again.

Activity wise, i am now back to doing small snowshoes with my dog around the house.

Sigh, back to square one i suppose
for 10 år siden 0 6252 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
I hope you don't mind me sticking my nose in.

If your Doctor had of given you pills for your heart instead and told you to walk for 15 minutes a day. To raise your blood pressure up to 150/90 and pulse to 110 while you did it you would feel better, because you would first off see there was nothing wrong with your heart, second it would get more oxygen to your brain. And third it wouldn't matter id all the pill was is sugar or a very mild beta blocker like propranolol that has some anti anxiety effect.

What would be happening is conditioning the brain to believe what you want and because this would be new and different it would work. In fact you would soon get tired of the routine and convince yourself there is nothing wrong.
And this is CBT. 

On the other hand the pills he gave you are not meant to cure you. They are meant to calm you so you can do the work yourself. That is all. They have not come up with a delete pill that will clear memory so you can start over. The best the pills will do is allow you to store memories in a dead file. They are still there, you just don't go there.

When you first start the pills your mind will fight being controlled and you will usually get worse. This is common for two weeks. At six weeks they hit max effectiveness and have to be revalued. If at this point they are working then you will not go to the unwanted thoughts. Problem is you might have difficulty going to thoughts you want. You might have difficulty concentrating. You might have trouble with eye hand coordination.
The problem is that the thoughts are still in the dead file where they are still accessible instead of on the back page of an active file where they are less so.

A lot of CBT goes against common thought. 

Take your heart thoughts. You know it is okay, but you also think it is not. The difference is it is okay because you were told so where as you think it isn't because you think it isn't. You have to think it is okay and believe it and you have to have a reason too. As CBT goes the placebo for your heart would have done this. But that is not what you are doing so try something similar. Use the pills you are on for their calming effect and do CBT.
What can YOU do to convince you there is nothing wrong with your heart. Not Nurses Docs Or Lab Techs but YOU.
Because it is you that has to know this not them. This is what they mean by changing negative to positive.
Okay, but it isn't really changing any thing what it is, is looking at it and burying it with the thought that it is wrong. It is still there but has no power now because you have  buried it.
Where as if you fight it or ignore it it is not going to ignore you.

Davit
for 10 år siden 0 162 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
I know how you feel.  I've spent the last month having constant anxiety over some dizziness I've been having since the middle of December.  I finally went to my doctor and asked to be put back on Cipralex (I was on it for about 10 years due to anxiety/panic attacks in university but went off it in June 2012 as I thought since that part of my life was over, I didn't need it anymore).  

It's been two weeks since I started back on Cipralex, and it has been hard, but I've seen some improvement.  My anxiety was so bad that I was actually dry heaving/vomiting over the first 4 days.  The last 10 days have been up and down.  Some days I think I'm starting to get better....then the next day I'll feel like I'm right back at square one.  Yesterday was a really bad morning.  I had a reassessment with my doctor.  I've been on modified duty at work, and was worried about asking for more of the same work.  Luckily, I saw the social worker in my doctors office last week, and the report had already been forwarded and read by my doctor.  They were very supportive and are giving me another month of modified duty to help me get things straightened out.    

I just keep telling myself....things will get better.  I want a quick cure...but I know that's not how this works.  Starting back on medications, seeing a therapist & social worker, signing up for some mindfullness programs, and hopefully this online program/support group are hopefully going to work for me.  I just want to get back to a place (both health wise and mentally) where I can get back to work and feel back to normal.  I'm so sick of feeling sick and anxious all the time.

I hope things get better for you soon.  One day at a time.
for 10 år siden 0 32 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Well my psychiatrist had put me on cymbalita and Abilify.  I slept for  a few days and then i felt pretty good. HOwever, yesterday was nothing but panic after panic ….even all night long and couldn't sleep.

I am so bloody sick and tired of these panic attacks and always going back to thinking something is wrong with my heart..now its because I'm on new pills I'm thinking they are affecting my heart.

Sigh…when will SOMETHING ANYTHING make me better
for 10 år siden 0 169 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Oh how I know how you feel. Davit is veteran on this…I an amateur.  I was in the same position you were in last summer. I didn't know what was normal anymore… I felt detached, even depressed and I am never sad about my life.
I was also worried about me health…all the time.  Till now I am. But now I just learn to relax and tell myself…so what?  So what if I have this ? or what will happen?   You can't control what's going to happen thats why we have these panic attacks, because we think we are losing control.  I've been where you were and I felt the worse I did in my life but I'm telling you doing these CBT exercises and challenging the thoughts will work….you just can't fight it and let it be.

I"m not 100% better, like right now I'm feeling a little blue and anxious but it helps that I've gone through the worse so I know nothing will happen. You have to get there to, so it helps not be scared of it.

Good luck and remember you feel what you think…This saying helps me everyday. 
for 10 år siden 0 6252 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
We are so conditioned to making thing happen and making things do what we want that we can't just leave things alone. 
It is stupid but we have to be taught to relax because we don't know how. 

You will have to take my word on this. You can not force it. What you are trying for is repetition. Doing something different often enough will install it in the subconscious where you will use it without thinking. By trying to make it work you actually open a search for why and come up with all you have in memory which is negatives. 
Some times it doesn't work till people quit trying. They just go through the motions because it has become habit and wake up one morning and realize something has changed. They usually have a few relapses before they realize they are trying to force it again. There will be no line between now and better, you will not know when you start to get better, it will just happen. Technically speaking what you want to do is accept all the symptoms as being there for now and accept they will go away. If your chest hurts treat it like you would for pain. This is known as placebo effect. In truth it is a distraction to draw the focus away. I used a lot of A535. Which I am sure did nothing but it worked. There is an exercise where every time a scary thought comes up you try to think as many counter thoughts as you can playing back and forth between the scary one and the counters till it goes away. Repetition is stacking these thoughts in memory so that there are more positive ones. Not only does this make the counters more likely to be used next time there is a trigger but it conditions you to do this in other situations.
How and why this works is found under the definition of a thought triangle. The one on here is drawn by me because it is a known fact but not on the internet. Therapists that upgrade know about it because it is fairly new. I got mine from my therapist. It will end up on the net, hopefully not warped or misinterpreted.
Recovery from anxiety and panic disorders is silent, it just happens and everyone says they didn't notice it happen till it does. This goes against the grain of how we are taught to do things so it will seem like a waste of time but it isn't. There is the logical way, and the right way. Logic will get you know where dealing with something like this that seems so illogical. Trying to equate this with a disease doesn't work because it isn't one. It is a disorder. It is a condition where over time things have got turned around and need to be turned farther around till they are back where they belong. Not turned back, that doesn't work, but worked through till you are back where you are supposed to be. 
The problem with us is we are intelligent enough to ask why instead of just doing it. Horses may panic but they don't get panic attack because they have a limited ability to think. 

Definition of intelligence. The ability to reason using external and internal sources. This translates to being able to use past experiences from memory to decide if something is right or wrong. Black is only black because your memory says it is. Chest pains are only chest pains unless you memory says they are your heart. How did chest pains get in your memory as your heart? A movie, a death in the family(even a pet) angina in the family or a friend. You can't think it if it isn't there. This is core beliefs and a subject for another time. 

We will support you, so just ride through it knowing some of us did and are better. Recovered is the word we use.

Davit.

PS you will get better but according to the rules I can't say that to you. But I will anyway because it is my belief.

for 10 år siden 0 32 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Yes, I have been journaling and trying to understand.  I honestly think that i could cope better if i would just stoping thinking its my stupid heart…. Hopefully today will be better
for 10 år siden 0 6252 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Read the other post first. 

Years ago I had very bad panic attacks. Replaying them is going to give me some anxiety but it is worth if it will reassure you that you can get over this and live and think normal. One time walking down an isle in the library I just stopped in my tracks and had tunnel vision. I had to get out, but first I had to sit down because I thought I would fall down. I needed Ativan to go back, and the enjoyment was gone. even on Ativan it was in and out and hurry home. It soon progressed to every store and even the doctors office. If someone came to my house I would get dizzy and my chest would hurt. I can feel the anxiety right now because although that period is buried it is still in memory and I can still feel the pain. But it has no effect and no symptoms. Years ago just this thought would send me into full blown panic attack. I'd be sitting on the toilet with a blanket around me in an overheated bathroom shivering. Or I would be pacing up and down the driveway in the cold of winter. Some times for three hours by the clock yet I could only remember a few minutes of it. Time loss was one of the things I suffered. I had panic attacks this bad every night between two and three for a year. My therapist fed me information because I didn't know CBT existed. All I knew was medication. And medication had let me down. At one point after breaking my leg and getting infection I decided I'd had enough. She asked if I would go to the psych ward for a rest. I had nothing to lose, I had hit bottom. She had me committed so I would stay there. I don't think I would have agreed to that. The psych ward is no different from any other hospital ward except you have to eat in the day room and you have to do your own laundry, including your bed. You can roam and watch TV or read make a cup of tea and raid the fridge. What you can't do is leave till they decide you will come back then you can get a fifteen minute pass. It was a chance to rest and straighten out my thinking. I wasn't the only one in a wheel chair either. After three weeks they asked if I wanted to go home.  I said yes. They said why. I wasn't about to tell them I missed my cat. I said well this is a fine hotel but the food isn't that good and the bed is lumpy. They sent me home. Being home was hard but I came home with a different attitude. I was going to do every thing and learn everything it took to win and I did. Attitude is everything. You really have to want to win and you really have to believe you can. I did. It was hard and there was pain and some of what I was asked to do didn't make sense, but I trusted her and did it. I spent years finding out why it works long after it was still working. even though I didn't need to know why. Only because it fascinates me. And I'm still getting better because I can replay my worst days and they trigger nothing anxious. 
I was her worst case of panic disorder and I am her best recovery. That is what determination can do. That too is CBT.
It does work.

Davit
for 10 år siden 0 6252 logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo logo 0
Been there, done that. And it was just as scary. 

The pain is real, because you most likely tightened up chest muscles. But it has nothing to do with your heart. Some times it takes a very long time for it to go away.

The reason you can't let go is because you are blocking it. Same reason you went dizzy in the shower. Don't try to block it. Accept it, look at it for what it is not what you think it is and let it happen. That is the quickest way to get rid of it. It won't hurt you. Scare the hell out of you yes but hurt you, no. Listen, this works. You are going to have the same fear and pain if you block it. Only it will last longer. Have you got to the section on journaling? Journaling is writing down exactly what happened, not what you think but only what you know actually happened. This is important because it will show you that in your mind you are exaggerating things. It will separate the logical from the illogical and imagined and most of all it will fix in your mind that it did not hurt you and can't for the next time it happens. If you can't write it down, sit down with a cup of tea and pick it apart. Do not hide from it. It will only come back. You are going to discover one of two things or both. One is you might not be able to remember parts of it and two. Most of what you do remember is for lack of a better word just stupid. 
Please just do it, I'll explain why later.

Davit.

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