nurseboy and mudslinger: I laughed at the 'amygdala in a cup' suggestion. It's so true... you'd like to just scream "Didn't you hear me? I said sit down and shut-up! I'll call you when I need to !" There really is no better medicine than laughter! I loved reading your conversation on the amygdala. About the whole part on stessful life and not getting triggered... the amygdala thinks anything is dangerous and unsafe IF IT'S NEW!. This is really important because when I first started down my own 'amygdala bound' search, I would feel so pumped and wonderful each time I learnt something new- and then it was like my anxiety would get a little worse. The fact is, even if you try a new diet or pick up running or anything that is good for you- it's like your amygdala fights back because anything new is registered as unsafe. Even new friends, new healthy habits... this of coarse leads to self-sabotage and things going amiss; even with those of us with the best intentions. This led to my learning about homeostasis (another topic with our dear friend the amygdala). I guess what I'm trying to say is that during times of high continual stress our amygdala then judges THIS state to be safe. And that's why when we start saying, "I need to chill a bit" it's hard to break old habits because our amygdala thinks it's unsafe. In any studies and research I did in school and on my own, it seems the general belief is that after about 14 days something NEW AND UNSAFE begins to be accepted as safe. A new eating program is hardest during the first two weeks- every excuse comes to mind, every reason why it's perfectly fine to eat 1/2 a cheesecake. Or any reason not to exercise etc. The trick is beating your amygdala during those two weeks and fighting back hardest when it wants sooooo badly NOT to change a darned thing. Even if living with anxiety is a form of sheer torture... that is perfectly fine with our amygdala because it's what it knows. The amygdala really thinks it's doing it's job by keeping things cruising along exactly the same. I find it helpful when I'm trying something new, to remember that my amygdala will be a little stubborn at first to change. I know it'll be hard for about two weeks to feel settled and on my game- but now knowing what's going on is quite

Nurseboy, I see you mentioned that you have read the panic program. Just wondering if you would be interested in giving it a try. Research has shown that this program does work. If you decide to give it a try, please let us know how you are doing and post your questions or concerns or progress here. Regarding your statement about your therapist, please understand that each tharapist is different, and they each use their own advice or techniques for dealing with panic/anxiety. Make sure you are open and honest about all of the symptoms you are having. You may find it helpful to write your feelings and emotions down and bring this list with you to your therapy appointment. Casey _____________________________ The Panic Center Support Team This message was edited by Casey, Support Specialist on 5/28/2004 @ 1:34:00 PM

Hi again nurseboy. Just to add to my last post, and what you said over you having a bit of high stress, then when things calmed down for you, your symptoms didnt stop. I know for a fact that its took me at least three years of constant high stress to get into the state i am now. If my Amygdala has reset itself, then even though my stress as settled to a more normal level, then i think it will probably take a while for my Amygdala to realise this is now my new level, and it can reset itself. Trouble with that though, i reckon its probably easier to upset your Amygdala than it is to put it right again. I still have to cope with the fear sensations of the attacks, which in itself must keep my amystat high than it needs to be. I guess this is why therapy and learning new behavior is sooo important. I guess it all helps in the end, whatever you believe is causing the sensations. it's not going to happen over night, this Amygdala is a suspicous little thing, needs to be though, it's keeping us safe after all. best wishes Mudslinger uk

Hi nurseboy Must have just posted at the same time then. Yep i do believe myself that this Amygdala is resposible for a lot of things. This little bit of almond shape mush reacts quicker than anything else, quicker than our thinking minds. when its working properly, or rather set to a normal stress level, then thats great, its this that makes us jump out of the way of that speeding car, before our thinking brain can react. Can you image seeing the car, thinking "oh that cars coming a bit fast, looks like it will squish me if i dont move, best move then" Erm too late. This is where this Amygdala takes over, its the difference between 56k modem and broadband. Whoosh, the Amygdala thinks the same things, but it does it so quick that you dont know youve thought anything, you just do the actions. Trouble with that is, if the amygdala is thinking silly things because its learnt some new avoidence because of the last time you went out or got on a bus and had a panic. Quick as a flash it remembers it, makes you feel you are in danger, before your thinking mind can tell you otherwise. I'm sure i've read somewhere that the next level of anxiety drugs are going to concentrate on controling this Amygdala. dont know for sure though. Best wishes Mudslinger uk

so mud, i was in school the last ten years working full time and got msrried and had a baby and a new stressful job and moved out of state...very stressful but REAL stress doesn't bother me. so when people would say 'aren't you stressed out' i would say no, such is life i amm fine. i graduated for the last time (HEEHEE) in december and looked forward to RELAXATION and since my life slowed down tremendously I crashed in january with ocd/panic exacerbations and it hasn't stopped. so, was my amygdala set high because of all the stress and now since i want to relax...i can't?

as a nurse, i work with a lot of neurosurgeons...i am gonna ask one of the residents to excise my amygdala so i can keep it in a cup and throw things at it.

Hi lisa. yep this amygdala subject is a very interesting one and makes for some good reading. I believe too that this amygdala is where we store are instictive learnt behavior, as in agrophobia we learn to over react to safe situations, that the memory of our fear gets stored in this amygdala, which reacts to the memory the next time it happens. This then throws us into a panic before our thinking brain can take over to tell us, "Getting on that train is safe". too late, the Amygdala as already beat us to it, told us "remember last time you tried this...DANGER>DANGER, panic get us outa here". Worse than that though, this Amygdala is like a thermostat of stress reactions. I've read that over time, if you are living a very stressfull life, that the Amygdala resets itself to this new level of stress, and its tough if this new level of stress is giving you panic attacks, this is your new level, like it or lump it. Strikes me if this is so though, that over time, given the right conditions, the Amygdala will reset itself back again. Who knows. whats that saying "more to heaven and earth than meets the eye". I've another saying too, "i've shown you mine, so you show me yours" tee hee. so i'd love to hear your imagery exercise for leaving the amygdala. Goodness knows, given the evidence, it need leaving behind, it's such a pain when its not working as it should. Best wishes Mudslinger uk

My therapist must suck because he teached me nothing. he just reassures me each visit that i have ocd and told me to read brain lock AFTER i mentioned it. it's cognitive therapy without the behavioral. yes tell me about the imagery! mud- i'm gonna check out the site. so, is the amygdala why i feel terrified when i wake up and all day even though i KNOW there is nothing wrong?

nurseboy and mudslinger: wow. I'm not sure what else to say. That's sounds pretty amazing- I'm going to check out that site. For the amygdala and panic, I started my search at my local library and consulted some neurology textbooks. I hope that looking into the amygdala helps you both. It is part of our 'primal mind'. This means that messages and responses haven't changed in that part of our brain since the time when we were 'the human animal'. Our brain always judges something to be safe or unsafe before we get a chance to judge whether it's pleasurable or beautiful or smelly etc. For example, my brain would FIRST make a judgement about an oncoming car when I'm crossing the street before I would get to contemplate what I'd be eating for lunch. Thank goodness, eh? Every sensory message goes first to our safety brain (our amygdala). We don't get a choice! I'm not saying the amygdala is 'bad'... we need it! Panic and the amygdala are connected through a misfiring amygdala that's working overtime... too many judgements on safety. It's like getting stuck in a loop- our amygdala makes a judgement for us "This is safe" and it's like we don't believe it. We respond "I'm not sure, I really think it is dangerous" It's like being triggered. For example, I used to get panicky watching movies. My amygdala probably went something like this... "Just a movie. We can't get hurt. Everything's fine. Go ahead and enjoy your movie." Then, my fear would say,"Hold on there! What do you mean 'enjoy the movie'? My heart's beating fast.. my hands are sweaty... what do mean 'go on ahead'?" So, I would stay there stuck in my amygdala and miss out on something enjoyable. It's about leaving your amygdala and using your cortex to think your way outta fear. Our messages get stuck in the amygdala and not passed on into our cortex- our thinking brain. Re-training our amygdala is about forcing our brain to replace unsafe thoughts (from our amygdala) with thoughts from our cortex (rational thoughts.) There's so much more... but that's the jist of your amygdala and panic. If reading this kind of stuff makes you feel energized and interested, follow that path. A good book that talks and explains about the amygdala is called "Anger is Not An Emotion". I can't remember the author but th

Hi nurseboy Did you find anything out about that amygdala. Thats something i've been looking into myself.Theres this brain scientist or something called Neil slade who believes he can click it forward to make you feel better, if you want to have a look at the site, just go to google and put in "clicking your amygdala forward" and it should find it for you. The Amygdala is a small part of your brain that controls the fear reactions or something, its located about 1" in from your temples (both sides). to click it forward you have to imagine it as a flip switch. the front of this switch faces towards your frontal lobes (forehead). The idea is, you close your eyes and imagine an energy running from your toes, all the way up to your head, then imagine you have a feather, and tickle the front of both amygdala, and imagine clicking them both forward, as you do, feel the energy being pushed forward to your frontal lobes and out. apparently some people claim with practice, you can feel a high, and also develope powers such as esp and such like. some people have claimed to be able to, what they call cloud busting, using this new found power, evaporate clouds in the sky. I dont know about any of that, but the site makes for an interesting visit, he's quite a good musician too, you need real player to listen to the audio clips though. Theres even a two hour stream of a radio proggramme he did explaining all this clicking forward stuff. Best wishes mudslinger uk