I laughed, in a shake-my-head-with-recognition kind of way, when I read your post, crescentdave. Seeing it in writing really highlights the absurdity of the spirals we put ourselves into, don't you think? We take on responsibility for all the things that go wrong around us, whether or not we have contributed to them in any way, so that we feel (at times enormous) guilt and shame. And then we berate ourselves for being so self-centred and insensitive, without, of course, actually letting go of any of the responsibility for the original issue. Heaping piles and piles and piles of guilt, shame, remorse and then, in my case I don't know about yours, self-pity. Would it work better if we switched the order of those? Would calling ourselves egotistical first (perhaps in more positive terms :)) make it more difficult to then shoulder all the blame? I've been running a new mantra through my head "It's not all about me, it's not all about me..." which helps me with keeping perspective and empathy when, for example, a friend is upset about some unknown thing or my boss is irritable and curt with me. Not so helpful, perhaps, for when I really need to stand up assertively for myself, selfish or not.

Crescentdave, Hang in there! Depression will undoubtedly affect your relationships with others. Keep working through the program. Session 11 tackles this problem specifically. Danielle ____________________ The DC Support Team

It's kind of a default position for me whenever I feel pressure to be or do something I don't feel I can do or be. Or if my partner is mad at me or fed up or disappointed. And it makes me feel like the lowest piece of sh*t. My partner sometimes needs to be sad or angry and feels like she can't or I'll go into some sort of bizarre, psychotic state. Which, historically, has sometimes been true to one degree or another. This is with me on meds, seeing a therapist regularly and being somewhat motivated. I just wilt. I take it all on myself, which I think is pretty self-involved and selfish. I'm sure my partner also wants me to get better ... RIGHT NOW!!! I know I would. And, again, I feel like I'm making some progress, but how much patience can any one person have? So I try and seize the moments where I feel good or open or loving and run with them. I leave her notes saying I love you, I say "let's go out for a walk," I joke around, I'm talkative. Which all takes energy, but it's good for both of us. For now, at least, I have to accept all this and keep moving forward. Thanks for your post.

Hi oldblue Are you Canadian? I've heard that apologizing all the time is a Canadian trait :) Someone steps on my toe or bumps into me and I apologize. I didn't even realize I did it until it was pointed out to me, and I don't think I did it because I actually felt sorry -- it was just something to say. Since my depression, I do apologize more and with feeling ("I'm sorry -- I should have anticipated that you were coming into this space and got out of your way before you had to bump into me and step on my toe" sort of thing), and I'm working on overcoming the belief that everyone else is worthier and more important than I am. I do wonder, though, whether or not my habit of apology doesn't create a bit of a spiral in itself. If I toss off an "oh, sorry" for no reason except as something to say, I hear myself say it now and beat myself up for being wimpy, which then erodes my self-esteem further, if that makes any sense. Either way, I hear you, oldblue. I'm curious -- do you only over-apologize in your relationship or is it more widespread as it is for me? Catching myself and biting my tongue before I apologize has been something I've been practicing for awhile now, and I'm getting better at it I'm pleased to say :) I agree with you about emotions -- I think there are positive and negative ones. I don't think that there are right or wrong emotions, though. Emotions just are... we feel them and they're not right or wrong -- it's the behaviours we choose to use to express our emotions that can be right or wrong, I believe, as well as positive and negative. To have both you and your boyfriend monitoring your moods sounds a bit onerous -- no wonder you're sick of it. Okay, here's a question: is it wrong or unhelpful in the long run to lie and say you're feeling reasonably good? I do this because I'm also sick of feeling down, and I sometimes even believe myself, but are there downsides to it? I think I must have been an ostrich in an earlier life because there are times when I really do believe that when I bury my head in the sand my problems cease to exist. Granted, the "lie" word is a tricky one in an open and honest relationship, so what if your response to his "how are you feeling" was, every once in a while, "I love you for asking but I don'

oldblue, Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It is important to do this as we can all learn from one another. Take the time to continue through the sessions and see the difference it can make. By using the Positive Core beliefs and Positive Core journal you can assist yourself in challenging your negativity. Use the daily journal to write down your thoughts and emotions, this is a great tool to help you pinpoint areas that you can work on. The members will be along shortly to share their experiences with you :) Josie ___________________________________ The Depression Center Support Team.

my post here is two-fold... i feel like i've read a bit about this in a prior discussion but am unable to find it... anyway i've realized that i blurt out "i'm sorry" as a response to basically everything in my relationship - and i have a healthy one at that. i'll say something to my boyfriend like "would you like a sandwich" and he will say "no, but thank you," and then i'll say "oh - i'm sorry," like i've done something wrong. i'm only on week 2 so i'm guessing/hoping there's work to be done on this anyway... any thoughts or similar experiences? second - as hard as i try to keep my negative emotions to myself (and i've been told by my therapist that there's no such thing as a negative emotion but i don't believe that - maybe that's a problem in and of itself), i find that they are starting to crowd out the positive feelings normally present in a relationship. even when my boyfriend is sad he feels that there isn't room for his feelings because he's constantly focused on mine and monitoring my mood. and i'm sick of it - i mean i absolutely hate myself... every day i pray that i can respond to his "how are you feeling?" with an "i actually feel okay today," instead of the usual "i'm having a very hard time," which really means i feel so sad and worthless. anyway i'm basically feeling like i'm a drag to be around and because i don't even want to see friends anymore he gets the brunt of it - and i'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on that... thanks