That does help me understand better, wildcat. Perhaps you have greater focus and I have a greater need for structure -- my ramblings would generate interesting conversations, but I didn't know what then to do with the new information or perspective. I suppose that that this thread is reinforcing that, just as there is no one thing that got us here, there's no one or right way to get us out. I'm working one-to-one now with the therapist who organizes the self-help group I participate in, and I find that the combination of his knowledge and experience, my knowledge that he's observed me in a social (albeit safe) environment, and my CBT work is really making a difference. An example was when I identified a core belief that I'm dull, boring, and generally inept socially -- the next step in the program was to go back over my life looking for evidence, and I was having difficulty with this because it was so obviously true that I was blind to evidence to the contrary. For as far back as I could think, new people that I'd meet would soon drift off, I don't have many friends, and I've always been awkward in groups rather than the bubbly life of the party. Bringing this up with my therapist, though, he was quite taken aback -- he never would have guessed, from our conversations or from my behaviour in the group, that I believed this about myself. I found it difficult to discount his opinion (my usual response when someone says something nice about me) because he's actually seen me numerous times in a group situation. We talked more about friendships in my life, and I made an off-hand comment that I'd had lots of friends in high school -- that everybody wanted to be my friend, in fact, because of my 2 very good-looking and very popular older brothers. He challenged this, and I came up with some specific examples of people, girls in particular, who had pretended to be my friend so that they could get into my brothers' social circle. I'd found it hurtful, but that was a long time ago. We left it at that. For a while, I guess my sub-conscious played with the 2 concepts: 1) that I was dull and socially inept was actually a belief, rather than necessarily the truth; and 2) that many years ago my trust in people's motives for friendship had been challenged a few times. It was a good week or even 2 before the connection clicked in my conscious mind, but then came a whole slew of other clicks and I realized that these acquaintances hadn't been drifting off all my adult life because I was dull and boring, but because I'd been unresponsive and had shut them out. I don't know the words to say how utterly astounding this was to me. I'd been navel-gazing for so long that I'd thought I knew myself inside out, but I'd had no idea I did this. The social ineptitude had been a given -- I could rhyme off every stupid thing I'd said, every gaffe and blunder, every person who had tried to be nice to me but just found me too boring to sustain a friendship, my evidence was substantial and long-standing. I guess that's why they're called core beliefs. I'm still a little disoriented in my new perspective, but I've moved past disbelief, past skepticism, and have been testing this out a bit and do you know what? When I'm warm and responsive, people are warm and responsive back! It's very cool! I'm looking at the world and my life in a completely different way now, and it feels really, really good. Do you know what else I'm finding, wildcat? Showing our vulnerability and emotion is like giving others permission to show their own, and most people are a little surprised, perhaps, but then relieved and even grateful. There will always be people in the world who believe that sincerity, vulnerability and emotion are for losers, and I'm sad for them because they're living in monochrome rather than technicolour. Sorry for the long post, but

Your experience really does help. It shows that you are not alone and many can learn from this. Josie, Support Specialist

hi all, I do not know if my experience will help but here it is... i am bi-polar! surprise. It means that I have some ups and some nasty downs. My ups do not show as a problem. I become somewhat reculesive and irritable. I want to ditch my family in a pit and become a secluded nun during an upswing on energy. And I have moments where I crash! I do not deserve the air in the room that I am breathing. So I have know for many years I need help. I have known this need since I was 17, and had my first crash in about 1990. I saw my RN who had a certificate in spiritua; counselling so I was with her for a long while. I had a student of psychology for a while; till he finished his stage. When I had a miscarrage in 2002 I was hooked up with a wonderful person at the local clinic! A social worker and art-therapist. I saw her once a week and I talked about my pain, about my doubts, about all that is nasty inside. she directed the introspection with a small nudge here and a question there; and I always left that office feeling like I ran a marathon. I was leaning to give shape and words to my emotions. I was learning what I was feeling and learning a whole new vocabulary. I was learning some of the errors in my way of thinking... Then All hell broke lose again in Nov 2005. I knew I needed more that the sefl-discovery I was on. I needed to get at the roots of all my misery. Family, job, Health were all mine and still miserable? So I was put on a waiting list ... that was one step better than before. I was hooked up with another woman, a psychologist. And she asked me what did I want, what did I need. This time I was prepared. I thought about it and had some experience in naming my needs through the work with the anxiety self-help group I attend. So clearly I wanted to learn to control the negative side of me. I did not want it to continue to rule my life. There has to be a reason why I slip into these depressive episodes every 3 years where I cease to function. I want to learn to express my feelings and be ashamed; not feel like a hopeless loser because I laughed or cried in a public place. So once a moth I see my psychologist. I often use an event in the past month to start my discovery. An event that has bothered me; an event that pushed my out of my comfortable place. I start with the physical event, then my action/reaction. Then I spiral outward and downward from there to my analysis of everything and my opinion of my reaction and of myself. It is OFTEN negative, and I look for why! Why do I judge so badly? Why so hard? and Whatare the alternatives? I explore what steps am I ready to take to improve the situation. What am I ready to give up? The past two months I have been working on the notion that losers show vunerablity and emotion. Being caring, loving, understanding put in a position to be manipulatednd used! I know this from my parents since I was tiny! But without these expressions it is difficult to find friendships. It is with these expressions that it is possible to develop trust, sharing, reciprocity. I have been convincing myself that I am not a pitiful loser when I ask a co-worker if they are going to be okay after some difficulty. I am convincing myself that hugging another person is not an expression of sexuality and desire, it is not opening oneself to physical trauma. A hug is an acceptable expression of friendship and affection. g'nite

Hi Confused, As you can see you are not alone. Cognitive behavioral therapy, interpersonal therapy and support groups are all forms of talk therapy. Just different approaches. Finding a good counselor can be really tough. Before spending your hard-earned dough, you may want to call at a scheduled time and ask the potential therapist a few questions to get a better sense of them. Questions that reflect what you need of your therapist and laying down your expectations with them may be helpful. Ask what they have to offer you? Ask what will you be doing together in your therapy sessions? Searching the internet on their website or attending a local support group can also yield a good recommendation. Hope this helps. Danielle, Bilingual Health Educator

I'm glad to hear you've found a self-help group and a 10 weeks CBT group program. Both sound very good and I would definitely apply too if I had found something like that where I live. Oh yes, talk therapy is useful for many people. I personally know quite a lot persons who could benefit from it. So, as you, I was also waiting and looking for the right one. But any right one did not come. Apparently it just did not work for me. I needed more (or something different) than only "talking": a concept which I have never found in those therapies. But hopefully it works better for others. Wish you all the best with the new programs you started or will start!

It's sad, isn't it? That's exactly how I felt: as though I didn't have enough friends that I had to pay someone to listen to my problems. Whew -- I'm glad to hear that it's not just me! This program has been very helpful. Once I found the proper words for what I needed, I have been able to find help and make progress. But that was after nearly 6 years of paying for a shoulder. I've spent so much money trying to get help, but it's hard to get the help you need if you don't know what that is and you're relying on professionals who don't seem to know either...!! I really gave these people a chance, as well -- I would go for an hour every week, at their recommendation. For the first few years, I assumed that it might take a few tries before I found a good therapist, so I didn't set a time limit but worked with them for a good 6 or 7 months before I gave up. After that, I had a four month limit -- that should have been ample time for me to have seen some progress, shouldn't it? What benefit is talk therapy supposed to have? It wasn't helpful for you or I, Perth, but it must be helpful for some people, you'd think? I've also found a great self-help group. As Josie said, it's free, and we meet on a weekly basis. There's a therapist who started it up and attends all the meetings, but it's run by the members. And -- I'm very excited! -- I've found a Mindfulness-Based CBT group program that I've got into. It runs for 10 weeks and starts last week of January -- it'll reinforce and hold me to the practices that I've been learning here, as well as reinforce and hold me to the yoga/meditation practices that work well for me (when I can bring myself to do them). Give me the words, and I'll find what I need. I won't be upset about the years of groping around in the dark, just glad that I've finally found it.

Confused, it's definitely not only you. It's at least me too. I hate it to go to the therapist First: it's really hard to find one who really CARES what you are going through Second: I hate the 45 minutes or the 50 or even the 60 minutes - it feels just soooo empty and "abused" after the 60 minutes.... after 60 minutes you are alone again with all your negative thoughts. It's only enough for getting into the problem, but not enough for solving anything or giving any valued inputs - how could she/he give you inputs if she knows you for 120 minutes only?? And this is why I quit too, it just didn't go anywhere. I would rather prefer a group therapy or similar continuing for 2 weeks each day. But 60 minutes per week are nothing. Third: I have no idea how they were called, but I just did not see ANY concept in the consultations.. just talking about any relevant and current issue ... I mean, this is something you do with a friend - don't you? So, do I pay for being listened by somebody taking over the role of a friend? I felt like a failure for paying a friend for frienship -what they aren't as they probably aren't interested in your person like a friend would be but in your money .. whatever .. it did not make any sense for me neither way But, hope you find this tool useful ? I am really thankful for people set it up on the internet and I can use it virtually, especially as I don't live in Canada...

Thanks for this, Josie. It's helpful. So where does talk therapy fit in? I've been so frustrated with my experiences of counselling because talk therapy seems to be the common approach and I've found it to be the equivalent of an educated shoulder to cry on. It's good to have someone to talk to, granted, but it doesn't go anywhere. Is it me? Does talk therapy work well for most people?

Members, Psychotherapy for depression works! Psychotherapy for depression works at least as well as medication and may be better than medication at preventing recurrence but finding the right provider can be tough and frustrating! We hope the information found below will give you a better understanding of what options may be available to you: Self-Help and Support Groups Self-help and support groups are the least expensive approach to managing depression, and are very helpful for some people. A group of about 5 to 10 people meet weekly and share their experiences, encouraging each other to cope effectively with their depression. Group members are in charge of the sessions. Often family members are invited to attend these groups, and at times a therapist or other depression expert may be brought in to share insights with group members. This type of therapy is also now available online. Psychotherapies for Major Depressive Disorder A lot of evidence shows the effectiveness of two types of short-term (10 to 20 weeks) psychotherapy. More specifically, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) and Interpersonal Therapy (IPT) have been found helpful for major depression. More recently, Cognitive Behavioral Analysis System of Psychotherapy (CBASP) has emerged as an effective treatment for chronic depression and dysthymia. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy Cognitive Behavioral Therapists focus on changing behavior, thinking, and mood. According to CBT theory, our thoughts, moods and behaviors are all closely related. Put simply, how we think and what we do effects how we feel. CBT therapists help patients to change the negative styles of thinking and behaving often associated with depression. Interpersonal Therapy Interpersonal Therapists focus on relationships. According to IPT theory, regardless of what causes depression, depression is associated with loss, life changes and lack of close and supportive social relationships. The focus of therapy is to improve the patient's personal relationships by changing the patterns of behavior in those relationships. Cognitive Behavioral Analysis System of Psychotherapy (CBASP) Cognitive Behavioral Analysis System of Psychotherapy (CBASP) is a research-based psychotherapy that combines Cognitive and Interpersonal principles. CBASP was designed to help motivate patients to change their behavior and achieve their desired outcome in life. The emphasis in therapy is on helping people build new problem-solving and relationship skills. Research has shown CBASP to be just as effective as medication treatment in a large sample of chronically depressed patients. Even more impressive is that in that study 85% of chronically depressed people who received a combination of CBASP and medication therapies responded to treatment and some of those who responded had been depressed for over 20 years! Psychoeducation Psychoeducation is a process where people learn facts and information about depression, and also have an opportunity to talk about the feelings related to living and coping with the disorder. For example, it is common for patients learning about depression to experience strong feelings of fear or denial. Often, talking openly about these feelings helps people to deal with them and better adhere to a treatment plan that makes sense to them. Psychoeducation can occur in groups or in individual counseling with a doctor, social worker or other mental health professional. Psychoeducation also helps family members or partners understand what the affected person is going through. They learn about the symptoms of depression, its treatment, what they can do to be helpful, and the limitations to the help that they can offer. The family can meet with the treating physician or therapist, or attend a family support and education group. Finally, psychoeducation helps patients and families deal with their concerns about the stigma of mental illness. Although public education in recent years has raised awareness, there are still many people who do not understand depression as a disorder, and feel uncomfortable when it is discussed. It is important that patients and families have a safe place to discuss this issue and decide what information they wish to share outside of the family. Interpersonal and Social Rhythm Interpersonal and Social Rhythm helps people with bipolar disorder both to improve interpersonal relationships and to regularize their daily routines. Regular daily routines and sleep schedules may help protect against manic episodes. Family Interventions Depression can have a profound impact, both on the people with the disorder and on their families. During an acute episode, partners and family members may have to assume the roles and responsibilities of the ill person. As a person recovers, partners and families may struggle to re-establish old routines. Sometimes, their feelings about what has happened, and fears about the future, make it difficult for things to “get back to normal.” This may lead to marital or family conflict. Also, preexisting family or marital stressors may have contributed to the onset of the depressive episode. In these situations, couple or family counseling can be very helpful. Self-help Organizations An important part of treatment and recovery both for people with depression and their families is the chance to meet informally with other people who understand their issues and challenges. Self-help organizations, run by clients of the mental health system and their families, are usually located in major cities with chapters in smaller centres; they often have newsletters that can reach people who live in isolated communities. Attending these groups can reduce a person’s sense of isolation, and provides opportunities to learn from other group members’ experiences. For many people, volunteering in these organizations and sharing the wisdom they have gained by living with depression can also be an empowering experience. Self-help organizations can be found through your local mental health association, your community mental health services, or your family doctor. Now that we’ve gone through the basics, please feel free to share your experiences! Which type of therapy have you found work best for you and why? What qualities do you look for in a therapist or counselor? Josie