DonGato, Hi, You're right... of course, there's no other reason for you to join this site but that you're looking for help. And you're right that the milder forms of depression must be seen to before they expand into something more debilitating. I wish I could recommend other forms of help above and beyond what I've already suggested. I would just reiterate that working the CBT programme here (as you have said that you're doing already) is the best way out of your depression - I see that you're adamant about not wanting to resort to medications because of your bad experiences with the side effects. I'm sorry that my joke about your joke seems to have failed - my bad, sorry!

@confused Thank you very much! Your reply is great and it gives my lot to ponder. I will try to answer you soon. Because it has not to do any more with “introduce yourself”, I will post somewhere else. @Daila Lama Excuse me - I didn’t catch your point. The first time I was suffered from depression is long time ago. I used the nostalgic term “alienist” to emphasize how old the story is. There are mild forms of psychodynamic illness (e.g. adjustment disorder, dysthymia, atypical depression etc.) which are not classified as MDD but which are much more than just “cases of the blues about life's vagaries”. A “modern psychiatrist” can tell you - as one has told me – treatment of such a mild form is important to prevent evolving a serious mental health disorder. The same modern psychiatrist told me that psychotherapy (e.g. CBT) is the main treatment. This is first reason why I join the DepressionCenter. The second reason is: I’m looking for help.

Jeez! Nails or dovetailing, what to do?? If you're depressed, Don Gato, really depressed and not having a case of the Blues about life's vagaries, then go see a modern psychiatrist rather than some antiquated Alienist and, if the psychiatrist prescribes medications after a clear diagnosis of your problem, then take the advice and work at getting a grip. Read back through the posts and the threads here and try to gauge whether or not you do suffer from MDD and whether or not you want to accept help when it's being offered....

confused. This is absolutely FABUSOUS!!! I LOVE IT!!!!

(cont.) You decide to gather all your friends and neighbours to help you build, with the offer of beer and pizza at the end of each day. Some have experience, some don't. Jack has a circular saw, Judy's brother's neighbour has an extension ladder you can borrow, Emily has several hammers, and the rest of the implements you rent from Home Depot. You find a class on how to forge nails, and a few of your friends offer to help. Mary tend the fire, which in itself is a big help because otherwise you'd have to be stopping all the time to stoke the fire yourself. Pete just can't seem to get the hang of forging nails -- the ones he does are either too brittle or too soft -- but he keeps trying, and with a lot of laughter he eventually he gets it. His are actually as good, if not better than yours. Carmen said that she wanted to help, but she keeps taking off. When she's there, she just complains, and can't understand why you don't just buy a pre-fab house and be done with it. In the end, she stopping coming over, which was actually fine because there are still people helping and it's a more fun and interesting working environment when she's not there. You're chatting and learning tons of stuff that has nothing to do with nails, and Tony actually stops doing nails and shows you how to do curly-cue iron railings -- you hadn't thought of putting a balcony off the master bedroom, but what a great idea and it would look so cool with these railings! It seems like no time and all the nails are done, along with the railings for the balcony. You're ready to start building. Which is where I am. Ready to start building, but afraid to start building. What if I come across something I don't know how to do, and everybody's looking to me to show them how. Best do it alone, then, rather than risk looking stupid. What if it doesn't work? What if, once it's all built, it falls over? What if it's not perfect -- people walking by will know that I'm incompetent! What if green isn't the right colour for the roof -- would blue be more acceptable? What if... What if... Lots of different analogies, lots of different approaches, but in the end it comes down to the desired goal of actually building the house. It comes down to believing that life will be better without the blanket over me, pushing the blanket aside, and standing up to face my fears and say "I'm not afraid of you". It comes down to stepping forward regardless of what other people may think, or of what the house may look like, prepared to simply deal with each obstacle as and when it comes. That's the fighting spirit I used to have and need to find again. My depression isn't my enemy, it's my comfort as I continue to avoid facing my fears. You'll have gathered that I like stories and analogies, and I hope that you don't mind me indulging myself here. Remembering the retreat and the blanket role-play -- as I wrote it and wrote this I realized what I had done that day. I stood up and pushed the blanket off. I didn't want to or feel like it, but I did it anyway. Maybe I don't need to find that strong fighting spirit of my younger days. Maybe the thing to do is to stop looking for it and just move on with my life with whatever I'm able to muster. Maybe it can't find me under my blanket. Putting analogies aside, DonGato, I've picked a couple of less menacing fears to face, and started re-establishing contact with some friends who I believed had drifted off because they were bored with me. I've also taken on a couple of challenging volunteer roles in my field of work so that I can start to feel success and accomplishment again. Small steps.

lol -- what a mix of metaphors! Time to heal is really important, and whether we ask for and accept the help of others or do it on our own is a matter of personal preference, I suppose. My father would always say "If you want a job done right, do it yourself", and that tenet was so deeply embedded in my belief system that it took this crash and burn for me to realize that asking for and accepting help is not a sign of weakness but rather a sign of wisdom. My mother continues to live in the house we grew up in, though alone since my father passed away 2 years ago. She's 81 and very fit, healthy and active. Sometime last year, she wanted to get an old desk down from the second floor to put out for Goodwill or whoever to take away. She managed to get it down the staircase on her own, but got stuck at the landing. Her next door neighbour was outside -- they're a young couple with 2 very young children -- so she called out and asked if he could help her with the desk. He was more than happy to help, and the two of them got in down to the curb in less than 2 minutes. My eldest brother, hearing of this, chastised my mother for asking for help from the neighbours -- if she needed help, she should have asked family. Well, she'd been asking both of my brothers for a couple of weeks, but they were always too busy. Even so, my mother went from feeling pleased that the desk was out, to feeling guilty for asking for help. As it was, the neighbour had been more than happy to help, and my mother's gesture of asking him opened up the relationship so that they were comfortable in offering to rake her leaves, and in asking if she could keep an eye on their kids while they ran a quick errand. Life is a little easier for all of them, and more enjoyable because it's a nice feeling, helping someone else. Yes, a solid and sturdy house can be built without nails, and nails can be a bother because you have to learn how to forge them and someone might give you the wrong information so the nails you forge don't come out high quality, so you have to do them over again. And you may not actually find out that some nails are poor quality until part of the house falls down, so you have to rebuild it. In the end, it comes down to the desired goal of building the house. You can decide that you're going to build it yourself with no nails -- it's going to be a masterpiece of engineering, and will go down in history as one of the very few houses to be built this way this well. You thoroughly research the methodology, gather all the implements, including the lines and pulleys and braces you'll need to keep the vertical beams standing straight while you put the cross beams in place (since you're doing this on your own). You can decide that you're going to build it yourself with nails -- it's going to be of such superb quality that your great-great-great-great-great-great-grandchildren will be able to live in it comfortably and cosily. You thoroughly research how to forge nails, and you practice and practice until your nails are perfect. Again, you gather all the implements, including the lines and pulleys and braces you'll need, since you're doing this on your own. You decide to hire expert craftspeople to work with you. They recommend using nails -- intriguing as the challenge of building a house without nails may be, it would take several years longer than if built with nails. They'd be happy to do it if that what you really want, but they charge by the hour. So they teach you how to forge the nails, supervising as you go, and after a few rather crooked or bendy ones, you're able to forge all the high quality nails you need. The craftspeople have all the implements, and you won't need the lines, pulleys and braces because there'll be enough of you to support each other as you build. You decide to gather all your friends and neighbours to help you build, with the offe

Hi Confused, yes, it is exactly, what feel: I don't like to fight my way out. I like to stay under the blanket - a warm and cosy place, where nobody can touch me. I’m tired. Where is my fighting spirit? I don't know. I hope that somebody at the Depression Centre can give a hint, where I should look for it. Maybe you :)

Hi, Thanks for your replay, Sandy. Depression is an illness – I agree with you completely. It is interesting to read, that you use nearly the same analogy (sprained ankle/broken leg) like me to explain it. I also share your experiences that persons, who never taste the “bitterness of black bile” don’t get it. They are not able to understand that suddenly the world can lose all colours. To build a house entirely without nails is possible as you mention. You also pointed out one has to work harder to do it. Why do you think the result is not as solid? For instance, the famous wooden church of Kizhi, built in 1714 without using any metal (no nails, bolts or screws), still exists. There are many houses built with nails didn’t outlast 300 years. A house is as solid as the weakest part is. I like to ask you a question: How solid are your nails? ;) Without any doubt talking to others and using psychotherapies is very helpful. On the other hand, talks can give you only a guideline how to “forge nails”. At the end of the day, it comes down to the simple fact that you have to do it; nobody else can do it for you. I don’t like to touch the subject drug therapy – if it’s works for you, it is fine. However, medications suppress some symptoms only and can caused undesired side effects. Do you get the picture? I mean, if you don’t use nails, you haven’t quality issues with nails. :)

Welcome DonGato. One thing you said stood out for me ... [quote]I’m still convinced that I can help me again as I did it in the past.[/quote] I agree that many times we are able to do this by ourselves, perhaps without the degree of success that additional help could give, but we can squeak through. I used to be like that too ... very proud. I finally realized something that was profound for me ... the truth is you can build a house entirely without nails. It can be done. You have to work harder and the end result is not as solid, but the house can be built. But why would you? Trying to do things on my own is a like building a house without nails. I can do it, but when I have the materials at hand to make the job easier and the result more successful, not using the "nails" is just my pride in overdrive. I find having my medication, using the therapy (CBT is a very effective approach!), talking to others who share my issues and working hard to adopt a spirit of willingness ... all help. They are my "nails". I end up feeling better quicker and I actually get past the bout of depression instead of masking it. It took me a long time to realize depression isn't an enemy to be conquered, it's an illness to be tended. If my ankle were sprained I wouldn't be ranting and ripping out my hair because I couldn't walk and so it is with depression. I had to stop being angry at the depression and just look at it like a problem to be dealt with. I hope you find value here at the Depression Center. I certainly have! This is a great bunch of people who truly understand what it's like to go through depression. Unless you've been there, you just don't get it, no matter how well intentioned. Anyway, welcome!

Hi DonGato It's good to have to actively participating, though I'm sorry to hear that you've fallen back into depression. To have the inner strength and courage to pull yourself out of the pit before is tremendous. I've always been a fighter as well, but am also finding it difficult to get myself out of this. People keep asking me where my spirit is, but I'm tired. I went to a retreat a while ago, to learn how to release my pent up and repressed anger. It was very interactive, and after talking about our lives, issues, etc, the facilitators put together skits/role-plays so that we could experience physically unloading our negative stuff. Well, part of my role-play had me being under a blanket, which the others held down taut (supposed to simulate the blackness that's weighing me down), and I was supposed to fight my way out and throw off the blanket. Well, it was actually quite comfortable under the blanket -- warm, and kind of like the forts we used to make as kids with sheets and blankets -- and I really didn't want to leave that space. I eventually did, because it was a workshop and I didn't want to give the facilitators a hard time or hold the rest of the day up, but it really was a good analogy for me. It's somewhere inside us, our fighting spirit, it's just a matter of finding it. Welcome, and I hope this place helps you as much as it's helping me.